Thread Analysis: Smaug vs Darth Vader and Kylo Ren

This is a commentary on the SpacesBattles thread. In blue italics are my comments and rebuttals. I didn't finish this post, but I got pretty far.

Rookie12: PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING NEW VS THREADS. New Opening Post Guidelines Step by step then: 1. The combatants that are fighting.

Smaug vs Anakin Skywalker Kylo Ren Round 1: Smaug can't fly. Round 2: Smaug can fly. 2. The Location or Setting of the contest. Pelennor Fields Starting distance 50 meters apart. 3. Victory Conditions To the death or other form of defeat. 4. Battle Prerequisites I don't know what to write here. a. Motivation Everyone is bloodlusted. b. Equipment Standard gear c. Preparation None. d. 'Bloodlust' Standard. e. Knowledge None. 5. Period for combatants Prime versions 6. Continuity or Canon Canon (novels, movies (Disney) for SW, movies and novels for LOTR), versions. Who will win?

Gyirin: Canon Vader has been shown to use Force field to block fire and falling rocks and he's fast enough to react to Smaug's fire. He also crushed a lightsaber-proof monster with the Force so I can see him using the Force Choke on Smaug effectively.

Smaug also has magic (he nearly succeeded in getting Bilbo to reveal himself in the book, and succeeded in the film). He's also incredibly durable.

Controller: Gyirin said: He also crushed a lightsaber-proof monster with the Force so I can see him using the Force Choke on Smaug effectively.

Was that on Cylo's rancor or one of the bug things?

Lord Chimera: Controller said: "Was that on Cylo's rancor or one of the bug things?"

The former and it was a cyborg rancor. It has some mechanism to counter Vader's Force-choke

So he decided to switch from choke to lightsaber throw.

A. Bettik: Gyirin said: "Canon Vader has been shown to use Force field to block fire and falling rocks and he's fast enough to react to Smaug's fire. He also crushed a lightsaber-proof monster with the Force so I can see him using the Force Choke on Smaug effectively."

Proof he can Force choke a lizard the size of a mountain? An entire Rancor is the size of Smaug's left foot.

Lord Chimera said:

That's great. Any evidence whatsoever that Vader can throw a lightsaber into the air to hit a moving target 30 times taller than that, which may or may not be flying?

I'm not seeing any evidence that Vader or Kylo can withstand Smaug's breath. He literally only has to breathe on them to kill them.

Thel 'Vadam: Vader can use force shield to protect against the flames and then throw his lightsaber into smaugs weakspot.

I mean..a ballista bolt did it and a lightsaber has more penetration then a ballista bolt

Can Vader's Force shield protect against magical fire that can melt rock and probably destroy magical barriers?

Gyirin:

Controller said: "Was that on Cylo's rancor or one of the bug things?"

Lyleks in Lords of the Sith.

A. Bettik said: "I'm not seeing any evidence that Vader or Kylo can withstand Smaug's breath."

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A. Bettik:

Thel 'Vadam said: "Vader can use force shield to protect against the flames and then throw his lightsaber into smaugs weakspot. I mean..a ballista bolt did it and a lightsaber has more penetration then a ballista bolt"

Evidence that Vader can throw his lightsaber that far, and hit a moving target?

Gyirin said: "Lyleks in Lords of the Sith.

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That's the equivalent of a Zippo Lighter when compared to Smaug's breath. Those fire streams are less impressive than even Real World Flamethrowers. We're talking many orders of magnitude difference here.

Compared to Smaug's breath:

This is ridiculous. You've yet to provide any evidence after I've challenged you.

Please provide evidence that Vader can Force choke this thing.

Please provide evidence that Vader can survive firepower of that magnitude

Please provide evidence that Vader can hurl a thrown lightsaber with the speed and precision to take down Smaug.

At this rate it looks like a horrible curbstomp in Smaug's favor.

Thel 'Vadam: Vader can guide his saber with the force....... how else does a lightsaber throw work?

And he withstood the blast of a at ar firing on him with it up. He survived a collision of a giant space whale into the executer with the shield up.

f302pilot4:

A. Bettik said: "Proof he can Force choke a lizard the size of a mountain? An entire Rancor is the size of Smaug's left foot."

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11124/111243646/4847332-4374636-sw3.png vader was able to crush a at-at that is far larger then smaug's throat and no smaug was not the size of a mountain otherwise he couldn't live in one

A. Bettik said: "This is ridiculous. You've yet to provide any evidence after I've challenged you."

smaug got more volume to his flame but there nothing about it that makes it worse then normal fire and more fire does not help if you can contrate in a smaller area because the area vader needs to keep the fire out of remains the same vader still only needs to block a area of 5 feet around him to stay safe smaug lighting the old field on fire doesn't matter if he keeps that small area safe since he does not have to worry about air

The Slim Jim Guy:

A. Bettik said: "Evidence that Vader can throw his lightsaber that far, and hit a moving target?

That's the equivalent of a Zippo Lighter when compared to Smaug's breath. Those fire streams are less impressive than even Real World Flamethrowers. We're talking many orders of magnitude difference here. Compared to Smaug's breath:

This is ridiculous... At this rate it looks like a horrible curbstomp in Smaug's favor."

Right here we go. For the force choke I have Darth Vader stoping and presumably crushing a 20m tall AT-AT https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/14/147508/5386909-2.jpg Also in regards to the range, Vader choking an Imperial Officer in orbit while he is on the planets surface. For his durability I have him surviving the destruction of one of the galaxies largest weapons facilities (presumably by force barrier) For his skill and precision with throwing things. I have him using large chunks of rock as projectiles to take down several bombers performing a full speed bombing run on him. https://bucket.bluegartr.com/52c5dbc80eee012cbce3a7c19fde810d.jpg

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/nRYrBOdG0tnNZgnU56VqRqEdLNY=/0x0:1988x3056/1200x0/filters:focal(0x0:1988x3056)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7684661/vaderdown.jpg That should just about clear it up.

Smaug can probably cancel out Vader's power with his own.